JARTIFACTS: House of Blues Interview, March 2000

House of Blues Interview with Jars of Clay
March 22, 2000

"Audiologically" transcribed from hob.com by Walker N. Grace

AT: Hey everybody! Welcome to hob.com, I'm Albert Torrez and we are backstage at the House of Blues, Sunset Strip in Los Angeles. Joining us right now is Jars of Clay. Thank you very much guys for taking time out of your day to talk to us here at House of Blues. Congratulations on the new album and the tour. It's doing very well, I hear. I read, when you guys went in to do this album, you went in with a new attitude to recording. What was the attitude change?

Steve: I think the attitude change was initially one to like a bad attitude (laughs)… speaking personally. Like we weren't quite sure what we were going to do and how we were going to approach it. So we ended up with kind of the mentality that we would try everything and give everything a shot. And that involved moving to Oxford, MS, which in and of itself was quite a stretch. We worked with Dennis Herring, great producer, guitar player, that really brought the best out of each of us inn our personalities and how we play… not to mention exposed us to a lot of new styles of playing in the midst of what we do as Jars of Clay. You know just being in Oxford put us in touch with a really cool rock 'n roll element, a blues inspired thing that we as four white kids from up North…

AT: Oxford is where you recorded the album? And you guys are from Nashville, originally. So you think recording it in a different city created a different product? Would you have come out with a different album had you not been in Oxford?

Dan: I think so. I think, just the community, no matter where you are tends to permeate the project that you're working on. There's an element of the way you're influenced by the surroundings that will definitely come through in the music.

AT: You've released a number of records that have gone double platinum and have been very successful. Does that add undue pressure when you're going in to record a new album… to write a new album?

Charlie: It did going in to do the second record because the first album, there was no expectation for that. There was really no kind of blue print of success. So having to follow that up was a strange pressure, and a strange way of trying to process what had just happened with the first album and who do we cater to or who do we write for in the second album. And I think there was a lot less of it on this last album. I think the fact that we had sold multi-platinum on the first couple of records actually gave us a bit more freedom or license to maybe try some different things and feel confident enough that we have fans that are interested in what we have been doing and hopefully will continue to be.

AT: How much of the songs' commercial potential play into the writing of the music?

Matt: It's sort of a strange kind of balancing act. There are some bands that kind of avoid thinking of songs commercially at all… sort of like to play that that's the ultimate sell-out. But there's a weird kind of truce you have to strike with that idea. The fact that if you don't write anything that people are ever going to like, then nobody's going to like it. (laughter) Like there's nothing really great about that. So I think for us, this record particularly was neat because we started writing some songs and we had this record sort of start to come together and we thought, "We feel good about this song and we feel good about that song." And it was kind of the status quo of how we approached song writing. And it was at that point that we sort of teamed up with Dennis and he really kind of disrupted that. And said, "These songs that you've written are pretty good, but I'd like you to just go back to the drawing board and write as if you were like a completely another band and just do something that feels completely out of character for you." And so, that's kind of what we attempted to do when we wrote the last half of the record and it yielded some really neat things. It yielded probably some of the more commercial songs. Yet these were yielded out of that kind of experimentation and that kind of lighthearted spirit than some of the more thought out ones. So it's a weird kind of mind game to try and not think commercial so that it will be commercial in the end. You know, how do you really do that? This record has sort of worked itself out in a really neat way.

AT: Was it frustrating to have to go back after you had come in and you had a certain amount of songs done and then Dennis says, "You know what? You guys need to go rework these and take them to the next level!" Was that frustrating?

Steve: Totally, I think in regard to the whole process… and just wondering what working with him was going to be like. We'd just come off of our follow-up, which we were pretty pleased with, but it didn't receive the same general market attention that the first one did. So I think in some ways, came off a little disappointed from that experience and tried to get back to what we were originally starting this for and even, in that, found stuff not as inspiring. And the trick was to get inspired again and approach it in a way that was fresh and to stretch each of us, but it was still enjoyable. And that was a process that was a third boring, a third frustrating, and a third elating. We were wonderfully surprised at the very end of it, but it was a long process.

AT: How did you get to that point where you felt inspired again? Was there a breaking point where you were just…?

Dan: I think it really was just a matter of us coming to grips with the fact that we had to really work the ideas that we had and make that creative process really count. And if it ever is going to count, then you've got to go through those times when you're not just accepting ideas, but you're getting under the skin of it more. You're making those ideas stretch a bit to really see how good they are. I think that process, in and of itself, is really difficult, because we were watching the ideas that we would come up with just completely get torn apart and then rebuilt. And sometimes they would get rebuilt in ways that we didn't expect. But I think coming to grips with the fact that it wasn't simply going to be a fun process… that we knew when it was all said and done, it was going to be really great and we were going to be really happy with it. So we really enjoyed the process more.

AT: You trusted Dennis and what he was telling you. How did you choose him to produce this album?

Steve: There was no one else! (laughter)

Matt: It was a weird thing, in that, he just kind of stuck out of all the other producers that we thought we might like to work with or maybe even thought they might like to work with us, as somebody that really seemed like they were interested more than kind of filling up their time between March and May. Dennis really was like… he felt like he had something to really give to the band. And we didn't hear that from a lot of other producers in the sense of… We heard more like, "Well, I could maybe fit them in here or I don't know… I have time in early 2004. (laughs) So he quickly fell to the top of the list. And based on the kind of projects that he chose to do in the past, I think make us excited about the fact that he seemed to be dedicated to choosing projects that weren't necessarily no-brainers or simply pop. But he seemed to be stretching artists in more creative and quirky ways. That was something we wanted. We wanted a producer that was going to kind of drag us in that direction. We felt like we already had, as a group, this kind of pop identity and we wanted a producer that would push us in the areas that we were uncomfortable rather than just helping us do what we would normally do any way… just a little better.

Steve: I think one of the neat things about it too is that he, as much as we decided to work with him, he kind of chose us too. Being friends with people that we work with, he was familiar with our music and thought that he could add something to what we do. And he had turned down some records just recently that we were like, "Wow! That would have been a cash cow!" So we knew immediately there was something different about Dennis because he's not motivated by what's going to put him out on the fact of R&R, or Variety, or Billboard. He's concerned about making good art! That's something we needed. Already having such a pop identity, we wanted to make something that was creative, as well.

AT: Speaking of identity… I know this is an old topic. But, do you guys consider yourselves a Christian rock band or are you Christians that happen to play rock?

Dan: That's kind of an interesting area simply because Christianity carries with it so many different opinions from different people that you ask. I think that the best way we've ever been described maybe is that we're all individuals that our faith is just a huge, huge part of who we are. And if we're writing honestly about ourselves and our music… Hopefully if you're listening to somebody who is an artist, you're going to want them to be a bit transparent and share the things they know. That, I think we do. And so our faith plays a huge part in that. I think to say any more… You know, some people lump Hitler with Christianity. It's such a broad scope. When we say, "Oh yeah, we're Christians" a lot of people make connotations that really aren't us. So I think we best probably just say that we are people that have a relationship with Jesus Christ and that's really important to us.

AT: Have you ever felt you've compromised that relationship in the name of success at any point?

Steve: I think ultimately looking at His life, it seems like He was outward motivated like he was in those places. So I think we've tried to kind of stay in the mind-frame of any opportunity we have, any place we can play… we'll play. You know, we're not going to say no just because we feel uncomfortable or something.

AT: Right.

Steve: Yeah, within reason. (laughs)

Matt: Have we fallen short of what's held up as right and pure in Christianity? I think we definitely all would be the first to say yes. In this road we've had to walk, I mean it's similar to everyone's road, in that, there are things that are distractions and there's impure motives for doing things. And there are more pure ones. There's a good way to go and there's a not good way to go. And have we always chosen the right one? Probably not, but the great thing about Christianity is that it takes the focus off of us and our choices and puts the focus on a God who can save us out of even those things. So I think that's the kind of paradigm that we look at those decisions through.

AT: Back in the early days when the band was just forming and you guys were building up steam to get a label, was it a calculated effort to get your spirituality out as part of the image of the band or did it just happen because that's who you are?

Dan: I think kind of like I said, that the most we hope to do is be honest in our writing and however the media is going to take that or what elements of that they're going to run with, I think isn't readily up to us. Cause at certain times we've tried to maybe play the Christian aspect down a bit simply because we thought, "Gosh, it'd be nice if someone would listen to the music, without prejudice, you know." But we've kind of come to the conclusion that the media's going to pull what they're going to pull. And we just need to be who we are.

AT: Does it still get a little frustrating, though, that sometimes when you're reading things about yourself, that no one can get past that first initial…?

Steve: Yeah, oh definitely! I mean and you can tell right away when a writer has a bias or had a bad experience with the church or maybe no experience at all. We just hope the good opportunities will outweigh the bogus ones. And that ultimately, people will get into our music and enjoy it for what it is. And that will happen, and it won't be about us.

Matt: The neat thing is that the band wasn't really put together in an arbitrary way of "Let's put together this kind of Christian band or whatever." The bad was really kind of a meeting of several guys in college that wrote music that really was sort of meaningful to them in that environment… for them and maybe a few immediate friends around them. So the music wasn't really birthed out of this kind of global vision to see this happening in the music world. I think that's something that we're thankful for, in a sense. That's a real testimony to the way that God has adopted our music and taken something that was really maybe designed to be just a small thing. There was no big plan to make it be what it has become. So it's…

AT: A little more special. Do you see yourselves as role models ever because of the way you live your lives?

Steve: I think anybody who… I say this every time I get this question! (laughter) Anybody who has a guitar, has a platform and you know… be it Marilyn Manson and his white butt prancing around the MTV Music awards. He's not fooling anyone if he says he isn't a role mode. Everyone with a guitar, everyone in a band is a role model to some greater or lesser degree. Did we immediately get that? Well, no!

Charlie: Or want it.

Steve: Yeah, (laughs) or want it? No. Especially when we realized the responsibilities that came with that. And still, as Matt said. Still we make mistakes on a daily basis in regard to that. But there's hope that through these opportunities that we get to play in places like the House of Blues and all over the country, that we can do something positive, as just being an alternative to maybe some of the stuff that's out there.

Charlie: One of the rewarding things is to just run into someone at a show. I mean recently we heard a couple of people with really cool stories about how this album or these couple songs helped them through a depression or helped them through a friend's death and that sort of thing. Where we feel like our music connects with people more than on sort of a commercial or radio kind of level. And that's the most special kind of thing that we can hear from a fan… that this song completely out of our control or maybe even out of our intentions of what a song was about… you know, someone grabs on to it and it really does have the power to comfort them or encourage them through a tough time.

AT: What is the biggest misconception about Jars of Clay?

Matt: (muttering) That we're really women?? (laughs)

Charlie: That's one of them!

AT: What was that??

Matt: Nothing…

Dan: It probably really does stem from the idea of what people know Christianity to be. We've often said the loudest of the Christians are not necessarily the most Christ-like. Those really are the ones that are sharing the most truth in terms of the way they really do approach Christianity. I think that people do often see any band that has that label on them as having this agenda. And anytime they get in there, they are forcing this agenda on somebody. Our hope is because we really believe in what we believe, that other people will respond to that. But I think if there was one thing we'd love to say to people is that we're really not out to impose what we believe on other people. We're out to make them think, hopefully, maybe give them something to dig in a little deeper than maybe general pop music has to offer. But I think people are scared to listen to what we have to offer. They are wary to come to a concert because they feel like they'll get preached at. That's one of the things… We really hope people will give us a chance to let us show them a side of Christianity they might not know.

AJ: What do you guys think is the most offensive thing about pop music today?

Matt: Mediocrity.

Steve: Mediocrity! Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, there's a lot of music that sounds like a lot of music. Dennis actually has this thing about… you know back in the 60's and 70's there weren't home studios like there are now where you can put a piece of music together, put in on a CD and make 10,000 copies of it. Now you can do that. It seems to have messed up the stat on how many great bands there were in the 60's and 70's and how many mediocre bands there were… and now how many great bands there are in the 90's and how mediocre types of music that don't maintain that same integrity. That's probably my beef.

Dan: Yeah, I think there's a lot of music out there that's helped a lot of kids make really bad decisions, too. And I think that's the other side of it, kind of like we were talking about being a role model. It seems like pop music really is deciding not to take the responsibility that they have here. They're all up in arms about the way there are shootings in our schools and sexual disease is on a rapid rise and things like that. And yet they don't necessarily feel like they have anything to do with that. You know a sixteen year old girl singing a song on stage about having sex. They don't think that's affecting the sixteen year old girl in a school who's watching this person… one of her peers, explain to her what's cool. And I think that those sorts of elements are lost. I think that gets kind of offensive cause you go, "Boy, you know, it wouldn't really hurt to have music out there that at least helped kids make better decisions." It doesn't have to be what we believe necessarily, but it can kind of maybe move kids in the right direction.

AT: I think those are the two most insightful answers I've ever had to that question. (laughter) Well, thank you guys for taking time out of your day and talking to us here at House of Blues. I know you have to get ready for a show soon.

Steve: It's great to be here.

Jars: Thanks!

AT: Have a great show!

You guys are logged on the hob.com. I'm Albert Torres. Thanks for joining us.