Driving to interview Jars of Clay I couldn't forget what I read on a fan website: "Don't judge their choices in fashions. Jesus Christ doesn't." And I'd always thought pleasing the industry suits was pressure! ("Jesus didn't like that drum solo," I could imagine Dan saying during recording. "Try it again.") I hoped the afternoon chat would explain how a band could survive with such divine expectations. My interview revealed Jars of Clay have undergone an evolution - if you will - along the path of doubt and uncertainty. "Jars of Clay is a committed religious band and without doubt more evangelical than early U2.) Now a slightly less righteous Jars has released a more profound album. Their new release Much Afraid struggles through emotions and faith with sincerity and passion. Jars of Clay's artists are poets searching for the perfect understanding of their spirituality. Much Afraid rocks with despair. It is a welcome perspective.

Question: How many references to Jesus/God are on the debut album, Jars of Clay?

Answer: 11

Question: How many references to Jesus/God are on the second album?

Answer: 5 (A 55% decrease.)

OK. It's pretty crass to quantify the evangelical content of the Jars evolution. But it reveals a greater truth. Today's lyrical content is less Biblical and more individual.

"In order for us to grow as a band we decided to move away from the safe staples of our first record," said guitarist Steve Mason.

Steve and lead singer Dan Haseltine said of Much Afraid that it is in fact the process of its production. Their changes in attitudes and shifts in perspective are recorded throughout their album, which abandons the binary ethics for more complex and problematic revelations. If Jars of Clay was an admonition, Much Afraid is a question. What is "right or "wrong"; what is "sin"?

Trying to be as straightforward as possible. "You used to write with the familiar images of blood or crowns of thorns. But now Jars of Clay seems to use somewhat ambivalent imagery to express a challenged faith. Is that true?"

"As we saw our audience broadening, we wanted to make a record that people could grab on to for different reasons," said Steve. "We wanted to have an impact in an unintentional way. I feel Much Afraid is more unassuming. [Its] common thread is a fear of faith. We wanted to put that in the context of relationships ("Tea and Sympathy") or doubt ("Fade to Grey") from a more cynical vantage.

"Would you agree that Jars of Clay reflected a younger and more naïve view point?" I asked.

"The first album was much more a college band's reflection on religion when life is pretty secure," concurred Dan. "Post college life is defined much more by disarray and doubt. The fears now are much harder for us to address. We found making the new album to be a departure from confidence. Honestly, we wondered if people would be able to understand our new perspective."

"This might be where we diverge spiritually," I said as I pushed the conversation further, "But I thought your first record was too rooted in devout Christianity. The range of interpretation was pretty narrow. Your songs then couldn't be just love songs. Whereas, the new songs seem to have themes of both personal love and religious love. I think Much Afraid is more intelligent and more complex because it is less rigidly defined."

"Our first record took faith for granted and Much Afraid is about the search for grace. It is a different perspective. Jars of Clay need not be seen as re-written. We have tried to use more metaphors in acknowledging that we don't have all the answers. We don't want to resort to Christian symbols exclusively any more."

"There are words in Much Afraid that stand out because, frankly, I was surprised to hear Jars of Clay singing them," I said. "I wrote some down here as I was driving here…"

"Can you read them?" laughed Steve.

"Sort of… The one that seems most obvious to discuss is "Fade to Grey," which I thought would make or break the record for me. I listened to it in the context of Live's "Beauty of Grey." With that cut they declared themselves to be idealistic, liberal, and political - we sing about alienation and racial diversity. So I was expecting your song to be a similar declaration of principles."

"Definitely," replied Steve.

"So when you say '…in my state of blind confusion / no God can pull me out' I was surprised. I never expected you to admit to doubt. I hope this isn't heretical," I confessed, "but I think that is what Martin Scorsese was attempting in The Last Temptation of Christ. True faith is one that endures or survives temptation and doubt. He saw Christian ideas strengthened by an almost anti-evangelism."

"That is one of the ideas we wanted to communicate about life in general," said Steve. "It is often considered a weakness to ask questions or to doubt. But with Much Afraid we wanted to say that doubt can lead you to ask questions that help affirm your faith. Hopefully that will create a stronger belief. Not questioning leads to weaker faith."

A drastic change has affected Jars of Clay since their last record - marriage. Has being married changed the context and feelings of the new record?

"Well it changed our personal approach a bit I think," admitted Dan. My family is now my first concern. It brings the reality of who you are to the surface. We try to be the best people we can be. Being united and committed to a loved one through marriage is the best way to intensify the focus on that improvement."

And in a way, the process of doubt?

"Sure," Steve stated.

"Seeing yourself through the eyes of another person can expose your life to be one you would rather not live," Dan added. "It can reveal selfishness and other vices. In that respect marriage is a positive thing."

Jars of Clay is becoming more adult, without that growth, their music would be stagnant. Not that Jars of Clay was ever sophomoric, but Much Afraid is much less naïve. "Could you have written a line like 'it's in despair that I find faith' a few years ago?" I asked.

"No. We went through some physical and emotional struggles over the past year," explained Dan. "You will really see that impact even more in the next record."

Songs on the first LP referred to dozens of lines in scripture. Much Afraid seems to be a more post modern, somewhat cynical reexamination of those lines. The new record finds Jars of Clay writing songs not expressly about faith.

"'Tea and Sympathy' was written more like a soap opera between a man and a waitress," Steve explained. "It is all about the temptations and conflicts within a relationship. What are the constraints of weaknesses? What are the boundaries of personal lives? It was written about non-religious struggle. 'Tea and Sympathy' was a very good song to write because it challenged my ability to expand my topics."

"You mentioned writing songs with your audience in mind. It is interesting that a band once so righteous would a) have done so well commercially and b) decided to take into consideration the public's perceptions and expectations. Do you feel there is room to craft the assumptions of what Jars of Clay can and cannot sing about?" I asked.

"We would like to stretch ourselves," Steve declared. "Gradually we will expand more. We hope people notice a maturing in Dan's lyrics and experiences. Leaving college broadened our scope on life. We do hope to keep the elements of what people liked about us from the beginning. In Toad's Coil you can hear traces of their lives all the way back to Pale. I would like to achieve that consistency and longevity. I don't really want to reinvent ourselves like U2 but growth is very healthy. Why become esoteric as an end in itself?"

Toad is a clear music influence (along with Live, Dire Straits, and U2) but also inhabits the core of the Jars of Clay lore.

"Much Afraid is a Toad song, admitted Steve, that draws you in with mellowness. I can understand you calling it 'mellow Toad with Live-like lyrics and yelling style.' Toad is a major influence of ours. When Dan met Charlie he was wearing a Toad shirt, and then I came in the picture and Dan was wearing the exact same shirt again. We all started talking because of a Fear tour shirt. We still own the shirts but can't wear them anymore - they are so worn out! I saw Toad live in Florida when they played the entire album by request. So I was also influenced by how they interacted with the audience. We respect what they do for RAININ and other organizations. Our radio guy found out they are aware of us and Dean supposedly digs our first record. We hope to do a show together one day. We would love it!"

It would be a mistake to assume that Jars' religious beliefs have changed. They have been tempered by entrance into adulthood. Much Afraid is a more difficult listen than just the pleasure of difficult challenge. Jars of Clay sing in "Fade to Grey" that through doubt you find faith but that when you have faith, more doubt follows: "If you follow me, you'll see all the black, all the white fade to grey.

"That is really it," said Steve. "Faith is a Mobius strip. The grey is the doubt."

"But in 'Portrait of an Apology'," I inquire, "you sing that '(my) interpretations are not what I see (but) I wish they could be," Are you wishing for the public to see you beyond Christian Rock? Any self reflective element in that song?"

"Yeah," admitted Dan. "It can have that interpretation. But it is really about depression and not trusting your own feelings about yourself. And about defining a self-esteem through other's opinions. Ultimately that is doomed."

Some fans could see the coexistence of writing music for a broader audience and not trusting external validation as somewhat of a contradiction. The new record is more accessible for others. But Jars of Clay is not abandoning their (religious) interpretation for someone else's. Instead their lines are easy to read between. However, this time non-Christian listeners can bring their own interpretation to the music. Ultimately that is what will anchor Jars of Clay in the mainstream.

"Listeners who know us will be able to garner our interpretations," assured Steve. "The goal as you said is to allow them their own artistic impressions too." Dan added: "Maturing is something you do until you die. But the more you do it the happier you feel about where you have been." The difficulty some fans my have with Much Afraid is that it is not intended to be as explicit as the first record. Also, like Steve said, having doubt is not east to admit. "No way," he affirmed.

In Much Afraid, Jars of Clay sing "scared out of my mind by the demons I've made" which seems to address the creation of internal flaws or insecurities.

"There is a book by Hannah Hurnard which is an allegory of moving from a place of fear to one of faith," said Dan as he summed up his art, band, and new record. "There is a character named Much Afraid. Our new songs are about moving from one place to another. On the road we have interacted with a lot of Christians and non-Christians and learned that a lot of people are reactionary. Only a few act out of love anymore. The result is a questioning and hateful society. Everyone loses sincerity that way. With the new album we were trying to move our motivation to one of love. We looked at the motivations of society and ourselves. Of course it was also our second record and we had a ton of expectations and fears.

Jars of Clay is attempting to express Christianity with new vocabulary. And in the genre of Christian music that is a revelation. They ask in Weighed Down, if "a king can be a king weighed down?" (Or can the perfect be defined by the imperfections in us all?) Jars of Clay used to be about how the scripture relates to daily life, but it is now about how human frailty relates to godliness. That is a big change for a fan of the 'confidence strengthens' belief of the first record.

Much Afraid is much more challenging musically. I am more certain, after meeting the band, that I like this new Jars of Clay album, which is ironic given the increased doubt that fills it.

From where does the name Jars of Clay originate?

The name comes from II Corinthians 4:7, which includes: "But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us." The genesis of Jars of Clay's humble grappling with frailty given the promise of eternal life.*

*Article transcribed from Jam-Online website, 11/30/97.

Jam! Online Website: http://www.jam-online.com (no longer accessible)